It is hard to get to be a terrorist in Finland…

I have found current court case against terrorist Abderrahman Bouanane bewildering: HOW is it possible, that lawyer of the said Bouanane mr Kaarle Gummerus, that his client, a self proclaimed terrorist is not in fact a terrorist. Mr Gummerus arguing comes from strain that two murders cannot terrorize a “country”, and thus  Bouanane cannot be a terrorist. as after killing two bystanders Bouanane hoped to get a way, but was shot and arrested by the police at the scene. Also Gummerrus blames error in translating the EU directive materiel into Finnish terrorism law.

So legalese bulshitry and Finnish gymnastics are indeed funny to witness, and I’m sure all participants (defense, prosecution and victims) hope for long and “productive” trials to get maximal revenues from the State. The guy has declared himself an ISIS supporter, has expressed the “hope to die as a martyr” for their cause, has declared that he wanted to kill Finns in order to carry out ISIS war against the west. But Getting to be a terrorist ain’t so easy in Finland. 

Some links (in Finnish unfortunately) Savon Sanomat daily, YLE Finnish broadcasting corporation

Posted in Epäselvää ajatustenlentoa, in English, Mamut, terrorismi | Tagged , , , , , | Leave a comment

HX-program Current Issues

The Finnish Ministry of defense and Air Force is going to send that Pretender over HX fighter repair a replacement program later in this spring. the candidates are as I’m sure everybody is aware of Eurofighter typhoon, Boeing F/A-18 E/F/G Rhino, Dassault Rafale, F-35 of Lockheed Martin and SAABs JAS 39 Gripen E.


What might not be in general knowledge outside Finland is that Finland is committed to 60 planes in future procurement and this is of course good news 2 most expensive planes of the competition namely Lockheed Martin F-35 and Eurofighter Typhoon. As you know this hanging oneself in to 60 or 69 or 68 planes all the senseless because more bang in the back when you get more airplanes. so while I’m sure that both F-35 and typhoon would be great buys and I think this announcement really makes it easy for Eurofighter to up its efforts to get the nod.

But the fact remains that even 68 Fighters is too little amount to be truly effective in defense of Finland. There is a lot of air space to cover. And as all of the competitors are “about as fast” between them there is not much great difference that you would be able to buy space with speed. Of course there are areas, for example some parts of a northern Lapland, that do not require that much air defense. For example areas around Helsinki and in Åland Islands be or I will be needing but still want to place can 1 plane cannot be in very many places at the same time. 60 planes is a limitation that our glorious leader mr. Stalin gave to Finns end in peace talks in Paris in 1948 so it would definitely be time not to read that patent document anymore. In fact any number of Fighters below 100 is too little.


Also in my humble opinion as International Studies have shown the specialized squadrons, for example in the United States Air Force found F-15 C squadrons and A-10 squadrons performed best in their duties, OCA/DCA for Eagles and ground attack for Warthogs, compared to “multipurpose” F-16 and F-15 E squadrons. This is because the humans are the limiting factor. F-15 C squadrons perform better in defensive and offensive air combat operations than F-15 E squadrons who also do OCA/DCA, but E squadrons also perform ground attack activities and thus have to spend some time practicing ground support and then they just cannot be as proficient as if F-15 C drivers are due F-15 E drivers more limited OCA and DCA operations training time. This doesn’t mean that F-15 E drivers are “badder” just that they have to practice more things they have to be able to do and then they cannot be as well versed in all aspects of their trade.

In Finland this would mean that squadrons down South, for example, could concentrate more on Maritime Strike operations above actions against enemy shipping and air defense and for example in units in Lapland could concentrate maybe in ground attack and some others testing defensive and offensive counter air. Basically the airplanes with perform all but as I said humans are the limiting factor here

The Ministry of Defense lists deciding factors of procurement as: Capabilities, Costs, Security of Supply and domestic industry’s role and Security and Defense policy impacts.


I called people about this and asked about the approximate impact of different Air war disciplines in CAPABILITIES. Most important disciplines are Defensive and offensive Counter Air and then survivability. Combined with target number of 64 planes this sounds good for the Eurofighter Typhoon and Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning: If you are nailed to certain number of planes it makes sense to buy the “the bestest” capabilities regardless of cost. This is only sensible because in this kind of calculus of power: number of planes multiplied by greatest coefficient brings about most capability. If you went the other way and looked what is the greatest capability over all, you calculate numbers of planes with respective coefficients and see how many planes your money can buy. In this kind of calculus the price tag of single plane starts to factor in more heavily. In very rough terms two “best” planes will beat two good planes, but 100 good planes will beat 60 best planes. So here the price of plane starts to factor in more heavily.

of course the “survivability” is not alone centered on the plane but also their use and doctrine. All Eurocanards should have state of the art EW/self protection capabilities in their respective systems. All have gone against low tier Air defence network in Libya in 2011, but none have gone against state of the art integrated Air Defense system such as Russia has. JAS-39 Gripen may have a slight advantage here due their brand new AREXIS pod, but the pod can be integrated to all current competitors in HX race. Some edge can also be gained from Gallium Nitride electronics that are understood to be part of next generation Gripen Es EW/self protection suite. Praetorian and Spectre still rely, in 2018, to conventional electronics in their systems, but this may change before 2025 when final decision in HX program is made.


US planes, F/A-18 E and F-35, are on a bit different footing here. Rhino is tried and true and will remain in USN use until late 2040ies at least so there is still way forward with this plane, and current Trump administration seems to be keen of getting Finland to buy the F/A-18 E. And F-18 E/F/G would indeed be a good plane: it offers dedicated SEAD platform and would offer great synergy benefits for FAF to enjoy.


As costs go there are two factors: pricetag of the plane and how much it costs to keep the plane flying per hour. As plane price tags go F/A-18 E is maybe the cheapest with little over 60 M€ per plane followed closely by JAS-39 Gripen. MAYBE. SAABs target per plane price tag for Gripen is “about 60M€” Dassault Rafales 68 M€ is in the neighbourhood as well. Then Typhoon with its over 90 M€ per plane is pretty far away not to mention F-35 very high and yet to stabilize 100-150 M€ price tag range. I was called out on this By Michael and yes I was wrong: listprice of F-35 in 2018 is 85 M$, or about 77 M€ a plane. So thank you Michael!

Weapons are pretty much the same, or “western standard” for all participants with France and Israel coming in to provide some competing and augmenting capabilities. So no tie breakers there. Stores and armaments cost what they cost and that is all she wrote.

Jet engines are compact and light compared to their power output, but they have one drawback: the damned things guzzle up JP5 about the same rate idling and in full power. Not to mention afterburner at all, which hikes the consumption up by some 60%. So by this rule plane with two engines use up almost two times the fuel. (Considering power output obviously.) So two engines cost about double to fly, and they add some survivability as you can hope to bring plane to the ground after jettisoning stores and flying back home staying on safe side of flight envelope.


All competitors apart from Lockheed-Martin offer the option of assembling planes in Finland that would factor in “Security of Supply and Finnish domestic industry involvement”. It is important to have the capability of repairing your operational assets at home. And this may indeed be important factor against Lockheed-Martin: What ever happen, your fighter would need to be shipped all the way to Italy to be repaired or serviced.


I feel that in “view of war time supply security” this has a very little to do with anything: As Finland is not a NATO ally, we will be last to receive anything anyway. And I’m sure any enemy Russia worth its salt would destroy all enemy fighter plane factories in prudent manner.

So no tie breakers here either. Only that Lockheed-Martin may have sort of pushed themselves out of the safe space here. Obviously paying jobs and industry is important in Finland as well, and will factor in but it will not be the deciding factor.


HX fighter will tie Finland to west. There is no doubt about it. But in current cold war in Baltic the scent of neutralness or ties the acquisition builds will be important as barometer of Finnish defense and foreign policy. Some dingbats even believe it is possible to stay out of NATO Russia conflict in Baltic region. This is just not possible. How ever you play it you will be at war. So better wake up and decide whose side you are on.

Sweden and SAAB would be easy. They are as “neutral” as Finland, but would not thus add “allyfactor” into equation. Eurofighter may be the next most neutral, as it is EU fighter, and Finland is already part of EU so it should not hurt either way. Same holds true to France’s Dassault Rafale, but would tie Finland into Frances procurement processes and whims to great extend. US planes would have maybe the greatest “allyness” but would really rub Mr Putin’s face wrong way.

So here are where the tie breakers lie: How we see Finland’s part in future conflict in Europe? Will EU hold or break up? Will Finnish hopes of NATO-light agreements with Great Britain and USA hold in real world?


The HX-programs resolution seems to really resolve in two categories: Capabilities and defense policy impacts.

If Finland decides to go with two planes F/A-18 E and F-35 will be the strongest pair followed by Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35. But this two plane scenario is unlikely.

If Finland decides to go with 1:1 number of fighters this maybe favours most Typhoon and somewhat Dassault Rafale. This is IMHO most senseless and idiotic way to go, but nobody asked me.

SAAB will be leftie greenies fighter of choice: It is cheap so you can save money to your pet projects, its Swedish so Uncle Wladi won’t get mad at you. and Sweden, every leftie greenies wet dream country, will be happy. Lefties felt during presidential election of 2018 that 18-36 fighters would be enough though.

F/A-18 would be maybe the most economical choice, but still would bring potent capabilities to FAF. It may not be spectacular, but it has all that counts. Plus it will tie Finland’s fortunes more closely to USA.

The black horse of the race is Dassault Rafale. It is pretty devastating in all categories, but not it headlines all the time. It is not as hard blow to Socialists and Russia as F-35 would be, it is not as expensive as Typhoon would be, and it it is indeed well thought of plane.

One should not put too much stock of other nations fighter procurement programs: SAAB Gripen and Boeing decided to drop Belgian competition because Boeing felt that belgians favoured the F-35. and Swedes were not willing to meet Belgium’s demands of tanker support and such. And Belgians are not happy with the French because the French believe the Belgians, as francophones, are obliged to buy their plane.

Typhoon has not met great successes in export market, because of price, but it offers great OCA/DCA capabilities that rival F-22. But it lost Swiss program to Rafale(as pilots choice) and Gripen (as politicians choice). But in the end Swiss bought no planes. People didn’t want them. Swiss scenarios are not really applicable to Finland.

So game is still open.

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Achtung Leopards in Syria! Full analysis of the Leopard 2A4TR in Syria

This gallery contains 16 photos.

Originally posted on OSINT:
Table of contents Introduction Operation Euphrates Shield, Syria Details about Leopard 2s in Syria Leopard 2s on the stage Does the cat have a thick fur? Final analysis and recommendations Also do not forget that we offer…

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Another iconic SMG in in the test: Mini uzi


In October I had a chanche to go again with EF-security’s Tommi to the range with an SMG. This time Tommi had another treat for me in  form of Mini UZI.The gun is very iconic and well liked by its users. First it must be noted that mini UZI is not, per se meant to be a military SMG but rather SMG for security and police personnel, who may need evening of odds against AK wielding terrorists.

This dictates that weight of weapon needs to be down: Weapon will be carried a lot more than it will be shot.


Mini uzi  in all its lenght. The stock is sidefolder, and that is the easiest way to tell UZI and miniuzi apart. Uzis stock folds under the weapon.

That said in 9mm this gun is readily controllable, but less so than the military heavyweight SMG Icons we had last time.And as saying goes  IF weight is power overweight is overpower”. One can feel the lightness and thus recoil of the gun much more sharply than with KP-31 Suomi and Thompson SMGs.


The magazine is two stack untapered affair.



This is evident when you look me shooting the gun. it is quite nice gun to shoot short bursts to targets. First series was a bit iffy, but after that gun was fun and fast to shoot.

The compensator helps as well, but your best bet to score hits is as always short controlled burst on the target.

The barrel is short and maybe most effective way to shoot the mini UZI is by holding it pretty much as you would hold a pistol: BOTH hands on handle. There is a short front stock of the gun, but it gets pretty hot pretty fast, and don’t really have a stopper in front so it would be easy to put your hands in harms way in high stress situation.


As you can see the basic arrangement is really simple. Sights on ends and cocking handle in between. Muzzle compensator is also a really simple two grooves in the end of the barrel.

You CAN fit your hand to forestock, but it is easy to a) burn your hand b) push your hand in front of the muzzle. So I advise on both hands on handle approach to shooting this gun.

Target looked nice from short bursts from about 10m range. Not too bad for 1st rodeo with mini UZI, if I say so myself.TauluSo if you are travelling in Seinäjoki area, and you are a gun guy or gal, give EF-Security a visit. Tommi is a great gun guy, and you can make arrangements to shoot all kinds of really nice pieces of hardware.

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TiedusteluTiistai VOL 2: Mitä ihmettä “Wanhat Waltiomiehet” Ilkka Kanerva ja Paavo Lipponen horisevat?

Ilta Sanomat otti kantaa Eduskuntatutkimuksen keskuksen seminaarissa Turussa viikonloppuna esiintyneiden Ilkka Kanervan, Seppo Kääriäisen ja Paavo Lipposen lausuntoihin Turvallisuuskomitean arvioinneista Suomen turvallisuustilanteesta.  Turvallisuuskomitea on suututtanut Suomen putleristit ja Vastavalkean sanomalla selkosuomeksi sen että “naapurissamme on roistovaltio, joka sekaantuu ulkomaiden politiikkaan salamurhilla ja muilla aktiivisilla toimilla” listaa voit vilkaista vaikkapa Wikipediasta. Tässä business insiderin juttu aiheesta Tässä muistutus Venäjän yrityksistä salamurhata epäsopiva presidentillinen kandidaatti.

Varsinaisesti Turvallisuuskomitea nostettiin tikun nokkaan, kun sen tekemä raportti Venäjän vaikutusyrityksistä Suomen presidentinvaaleihin tuli julki Helsingin Sanomissa. Tutkimuksen tekijöitä on vaadittu ristiinnaulittaviksi, mutta Turvallisuuskomitea on vastustanut miehuullisesti näitä vaatimuksia. Aivan oikein. Kyse on vain yrityksestä pakottaa turvallisuuden vakavasti ottavat tahot vaikenemaan huolista.

Edelleen Venäjä sekaantuu Moldovan sisäisiin asioihin ja miehittää laittomasti alueita ja yritti lavastaa Montenegrossa vallankaappauksen, mutta epäonnistui. Venäjän joukot siirtävät rajapyykkejä Georgiassa (tai vanhalta nimeltään Gruusiassa).

Veikkaan että kova turvallisuuskomiteaa alasajava kaksikko on saanut ohjeensa Kremlin suunnalta tai sitten omassa menneisyydessä on juttuja joiden ei soisi tulevan päivänvaloon. Lipponen oli nousevaa poliittista nuorisoa 70-80 luvulla, joten olisi hyvin tavatonta, että hänestä EI OLISI kattavaa kansioita ja ikiomaa kotiryssää hänellä olisi ollut. Nykyäänhän Lipponen on Venäläisen firman taskussa, firman joka saa ohjeensa Kremlistä. Mahdollisesti Lipponenkin sai siis ohjeita samalta suunnalta, kun piti lähteä kollektiiviseen hyökkäykseen totuuden puhujia® vastaan. Lipposelle turvallisuuskomitean ongelma oli se että se ei hänestä ollut “parlamentaarisessa kontrollissa” NOH ei ole suojelupoliisi, tavallinen poliisi tai Puolustusvoimatkaan sen kummemmin. Eli minusta ongelmaa ei ole.

Ilkka Kanerva, tuo puutarhanhoito hommistaan kuuluisaksi tullut Kokoomusmies, teki oudon ulostulon. Kanerva on profiloitunut enemmänkin ehkä haukkana kuin puluna, mutta lauantain ulostulo oli enemmänkin pulun kuin haukan suusta kuultua. Veikkaan että “puutarhaa on hoidettu” synninpäästömatkalla DDRssä ja myöhemminkin, ja siitä on jäänyt jotain ikävää kuvanauhalle. Kanerva on supliikki mies, mutta libidoaan hän ei ole ilmeisesti pystynyt, koskaan, kontrolloimaan, ja jäänyt näin ilmeisesti hunaja-ansaan. Ja nyt joku on muistuttanut asiasta.

Ilmiselvänä tavoitteena on saada hyvintoimivan ja asioista perillä olevan, ja niistä niiden oikeilla nimillä puhuvan Turvallisuuskomiten tilalle poliittisilla päättäjillä, siis ei asiantuntijoilla täytetty “Turvallisuusneuvosto“, jonka epäpätevyyden kanssa kilpailisivat ainoastaan siitä aiheutuvat tietovuodot. Yritys on kova hallita siitä mistä saa keskustella ja mitä saa sanoa ääneen. Tämän ehdotuksen ainoa tarkoitus on ajaa Putinin Venäjän etuja Suomessa, ja paluttaa maahan suomettumisen ajan “Refleksiivinen kontrolli”. Tämä ei ole ainakaan Suomen ja suomalaisten etujen mukaista.

Turvallisuuskomitea siis vain listasi tiedot NIISTÄ AKTIIVISISTA TOIMISTA joihin Putinin Venäjän tiedetään syyllistyneen, ja joiden kaltaista toimintaa on odotettavissa myös Suomen seuraavissa vaaleissa, Presidentin vaaleissa. Jostakin syystä näistä todellisista ja todennäköisistä uhkista ei saa varoittaa veronalaista rahvasta. Ehkäpä vaikuttaminen menee vaikeammaksi, jos sitä aletaan epäillä. Venäjän mielipidevaikuttaminen on tosiasia: Sitä on tapahtunut USAn, Ranskan ja myös Saksan vaaleissa.

Eli kaiketikkin vaikuttaa siltä että “Putlerin paiplainit” toimivat vanhoihin poliittisiin vaikuttajiin erittäin hyvin.


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TiedusteluTiistai: Reblog from The Guardian

Tämä on uudelleenblokkaus The guardianin julkaisemasta jtusta jossa John Le Carre, entinen MI6 mies ja kirjailija, kertoo kuinka Presidentti Trumpin hallinto näivettää USAlaista turvallisuus apparaattia. Tämä on hyvin vakava uhka Putinin Venäjän lisätessä panoksia vakoilusotaansa Länsimaita vastaan.

Venäjän uhka länsimaissa on todellinen, valitettavasti. Guardian on keskustavasemmistolainen lehti.

Alkuperäinen juttu: The Guardian

Lainaus alkaa:

John le Carré on Trump: ‘Something seriously bad is happening’

Author draws parallels between Donald Trump and rise of 1930s fascism, in rare public appearance at Royal Festival Hall

John le Carré
John le Carré, seen here in 2011, told the audience of his disdain for Trump and his despair for the US. Photograph: Sang Tan/AP 

John le Carré, one of Britain’s greatest living writers, has spoken of the “toxic” parallels between the rise of Donald Trump and the rise of 1930s fascism.

In a rare public appearance, the 85-year-old novelist and former spy spoke of his disdain for Trump and his despair for the US and the wider world.

“Something truly, seriously bad is happening and from my point of view we have to be awake to that,” he told an audience at the Royal Festival Hall in London.

“These stages that Trump is going through in the United States and the stirring of racial hatred … a kind of burning of the books as he attacks, as he declares real news as fake news, the law becomes fake news, everything becomes fake news.

“I think of all things that were happening across Europe in the 1930s, in Spain, in Japan, obviously in Germany. To me, these are absolutely comparable signs of the rise of fascism and it’s contagious, it’s infectious. Fascism is up and running in Poland and Hungary. There’s an encouragement about.”

Even today, Le Carré said, Ang Sang Suu Kyi is speaking of “fake news” in Burma. “These are infectious forms of demagogic behaviour and they are toxic.”

Le Carré was speaking at an event in aid of the charity Médecins Sans Frontièresand which was also beamed to cinemas – to mark the publication of his latest book, A Legacy of Spies, which features the return of his fictional spymaster George Smiley.

The audience, which included Tom Stoppard, Nigella Lawson, Frank Skinner, Jarvis Cocker, Richard Osman and Robert Winston, listened as Le Carré looked back on his life and work and answered tweeted questions from the public, chosen by moderator Jon Snow.

Copies of A Legacy of Spies
A Legacy of Spies features the return of le Carré’s fictional spymaster George Smiley. Photograph: Tolga Akmen/AFP/Getty Images

Le Carré was employed by both MI5 and MI6 before becoming a writer, but he said the service then was a kind of “non-violent fairyland” hugely different to the security services of today.

Asked whether he would recommend being a spy, he said: “It is is such a huge industry now, with so many different compartments, it is almost like saying: would you take up the law? These services have altered so vastly since my day.”

If people are, though, “by instinct a befriender, a seducer and a liar, in the sense of a gentleman who lies for the good of his country” then MI6 is for you, “but think of the second half of your life because not many people have one”.

Despite Le Carré’s new book being billed as the return of Smiley, his appearance is, according to one review, “the slimmest of cameos”.

Nevertheless, it has been rapturously received. Reviewing for the Guardian, John Banville writes: “The ingenuity and skill with which the thing is brought off is breathtaking – really, not since The Spy [Who Came in from the Cold] has Le Carré exercised his gift as a storyteller so powerfully and to such thrilling effect.”

The book tells the story of Smiley’s right-hand man Peter Guillam, summoned to MI6’s headquarters in Vauxhall to explain the events from The Spy Who Came in from the Cold, which resulted in the deaths at the Berlin wall of agent Alec Leamas and his lover Liz Gold.

Le Carré said Guillam, “when I’m feeling confused but willing”, was the character he most related to, but there were parts of him in all his characters. “You can’t actually make character without putting something of yourself in to each one, even the most larcenous and wicked, the most lecherous, the most pure. Each of them has, in his or her own way, something that you can relate to.”

Le Carré’s previous Smiley novels are set in the cold war, an almost unimaginably different era to which he said he did not hark back.

He admitted being old-fashioned, writing every day with a pen. And although there will be no more Smiley he said he would continue writing and was working on his next novel. “I would go on writing even if I knew I was not going to be published, ever. I couldn’t help it.”

Lainaus loppuu.

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Mielenkiintoinen tieto HX-hankkeen tarjoyspyyntötiedotteessa.

Huomasin mielenkiintoisen pienen tiedonmurusen Puolustusministeriön HX-hanke tiedotteissa: Asejärjestelmistä ja kyvykkyyksistä on lähetetty tarjouspyyntö Israeliin. Tämä tarkoittaa käytännösä Rafael-nimisen asejärjestelmiä toimittavan firman tuotteita. Jo on aikakin, sanoisin. Rafaelin Python ilmataisteluohjukset lienevät alansa parhaat ,tai parhaita, nykymaailmassa, ja käytännössä suoraan amerikkalaisten järjestelmien kanssa yhteensopivat. (Kuten käytännössä kaikki muutkin läntiset ilmataisteluohjukset ovat.) Pythonin erityiset vahvuudet liittyvät sen erittäin suureen laukaisuikkunaan: se voidaan ampua mihin tahansa oman oneen ympärille. Tietenkin suuret ja rajut liikkeet juuri lentoradan alussa verottavat kantamaa. Python 5 ohjuksen varman tapon tilavuuden (no escape volume) pitäisi olla Länsiohjuksista suurimpia. Sama firma valmistaa myös Derby ja Derby ER ohjuksia, jotka kuitenkaan eivät tuo MBDA Meteorin kaltaista kykyä.

Ilmasta maahan asejärjestelmiin Rafaelilta löytyy SPICE, Smart, Precise Impact, Cost Effective 1000 paunan ja 2000 paunan pommien ohjausjärjestelmä.  On varmasti hyvä, on aivan uutta tuotantoa, mutta ei välttämättä tuo suurta etua vaikkapa ranskalaisten HAMMERiin verrattuna. SPICE mainostaa myös STand Off kykyä, eli kykyä pudottaa pommit ilmatorjunnan tulivaikutuksen ulkopuolelta, mutta tämä ei nyt vain välttämättä ole oikeassa ilmasodassa mitenkään kriittinen kyky. Vaikka ilmatorjunta ei olisikaan ulottumassa koneeseesi, olet silti hävittäjien tulen vaikutuspiirissä. On tietenkin hyvä että pystys tuhoamaan vihollisen ilman omaa vaaraa, mutta kyky siihen voi olla Suomen käymässä ilmasodassa aikalailla pieniä silakoita.

Rafael tekee maailman, ellei parasta niin yhtä parhaista, Litening tiedustelu ja maalinosoitus podi-sarjaa. Muillakin vastaavia on, mutta Rafaelin Litening on ollut hyvin kiitelty ja laajalla käytöllä. Muun muassa Suomen Ilmavoimissa Hornet kalustossa.

Ainoa asia mihin Israelista ei apuja löydy on HX koneen laivamaaleja vastaan tarkoitettuun kykyyn. Laivaston alusmäärän pienentyessä, uskon että tämä kyky tulee kasvattamaan merkitystään HX ohjelmassa. Tässä kategoriassa Raskalaiset ovat todennäköisesti vahvimmilla Exocet-meritorjuntaohjuksilla ja Ruotsalaiset heti perässä tai rinnalla RBS-15 systeemillään. Amerikkalaisilla on oma Harpooninsa, mutta sen kehittely on ollut hieman jäissä vuoden 2009 jälkeen.

Veikkaan että Ilmavoimat on kiinnostunut nimeomaan israelilaisista tiedustelu- ja maalinosoitus podeista ja ehkä Python 5 lähi-ilmataisteluohjuksesta. Molemmat, tai kaikki, olisivatkin loistavia kauppoja.

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